  18/06/2012 15:37 |
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Is there already progress in the genetic background of this phenomenon?
I read now horns until 15 cm !
And how about Valplatini and Madonie ?
Did la primavera bring awakens ?
[Modificato da Danny_57 18/06/2012 15:39] |
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| 18/06/2012 19:59 |
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La cresta della Cornuta di Caltanissetta -
é una mutazione del locus
D
Dv, Dc. d+
Questo è il nome
Duplex Comb V-shaped
è dominante
Io da poco allevo esemplari in purezza .
The crest of the Horned Caltanissetta -
is a mutation of the locus
D
DV, DC. d +
This is the name
V-shaped duplex comb
is dominant
I recently breed pure .
In questa foto noti il confronto con un altra razza .
For Madonie ed Valplatani work in progress... |
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| 18/06/2012 21:01 |
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spettacolo straordinario !!! |
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| 18/06/2012 22:55 |
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Pulcini ,nella terza foto differenza di peso e colore tra Siciliano ed cornuto di Caltanissetta nati lo stesso giorno.
L'ala è quasi nera ,piumino scuro . |
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| 19/06/2012 08:48 |
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How look the crest of an adult female ? |
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| 19/06/2012 12:58 |
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Nelle femmine le corna sono più piccoli .
Cresta femmina di sei mesi
In females the horns are smaller.
Female crest of six months |
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| 19/06/2012 13:09 |
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Is the second photo of a female ? If yes that is quite impressive ! |
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| 19/06/2012 13:15 |
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cirasa72, 18-6-2012 19:59:
La cresta della Cornuta di Caltanissetta -
é una mutazione del locus
D
Dv, Dc. d+
Questo è il nome
Duplex Comb V-shaped
è dominante
Io da poco allevo esemplari in purezza .
The crest of the Horned Caltanissetta -
is a mutation of the locus
D
DV, DC. d +
This is the name
V-shaped duplex comb
is dominant
I recently breed pure .
In questa foto noti il confronto con un altra razza .
For Madonie ed Valplatani work in progress...
In my opinion this must be a mutation of D^V (p+p+ r+r+ DvDv Bd+Bd+) to become these extra long horns.
What is the percentage of the outcome in the new born with these extra long horns (in males/in females) ?
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| 19/06/2012 13:38 |
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sia la gallina che il gallo hanno corna veramente spettacolari forza cirasa che forse riusciamo a vederla a qualche prossima mostra con grande vanto per chi la stà selezionando. |
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| 19/06/2012 14:20 |
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Indeed Giovanni it would be a spectacular addition to the Sicilian (Italian) chicken heritage if this for many years hidden project could come to publication receiving all the official support and protection that it would need !
[Modificato da Danny_57 19/06/2012 14:21] |
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| 19/06/2012 20:12 |
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Danny_57, 19/06/2012 13.15:
In my opinion this must be a mutation of D^V (p+p+ r+r+ DvDv Bd+Bd+)
![[SM=g7348]](https://im0.freeforumzone.it/up/0/48/2814284.gif)
VERY GOOD
observation!!!!! ![[SM=g7372]](https://im0.freeforumzone.it/up/0/72/2432760.gif)
The gene Bd is owned by breda like chickens without a crest, and causes a doubling of the horns ..... The Sicily were these chickens.
The second picture is female. There are hen better
The selection of these chickens was made by farmers.
Il gene Bd è posseduto da polli senza cresta come le breda ,ed causa un raddoppio delle corna ..... Il Sicilia erano presenti questi polli .
La seconda foto è femmina .Esistono galline migliori
La selezione è stata fatta da contadini ,il merito và a loro .
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| 19/06/2012 21:00 |
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Yes I read about the isolated farmer breeding only.
Is also written that the Dv allele is dominant to the Dc allele.
So the wide cavernous nostrils are expressed with Dv/Dv as with Dv/Dc but not with Dv/d+.
So you breed this Sicilian breed with the extraordinary combs ?
Are you a Caltanissetta ?
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| 19/06/2012 21:49 |
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I think in this mutation of the D locus has three different alleles (Dv Dc + d.)
I know that a locus containing two alleles, but not always.
The cavernous nostrils are present for the presence of d + Dv Dc.
I personally verified with heterozygotes that it is a different gene of Dv Dc
But that's part of my personal genetic. ![[SM=x1650009]](https://im0.freeforumzone.it/up/0/83/4355106.gif)
Watch the v-shape.
I live in Caltanissetta for now ..
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| 19/06/2012 22:00 |
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mazza59, 19/06/2012 13.38:
sia la gallina che il gallo hanno corna veramente spettacolari forza cirasa che forse riusciamo a vederla a qualche prossima mostra con grande vanto per chi la stà selezionando.
Appena mi libero da molti impegni di lavoro te li porto sù!
Sono venuto più volte ,ma non ho avuto il tempo materiale, spero nelle ferie tra luglio- agosto.
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| 19/06/2012 22:18 |
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I read the Breda males have 2 small papillae on each side of the median line back from the upper beak indicate the duplex condition, maybe this have todo with it along with the isolated breeding !
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| 19/06/2012 22:31 |
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I confirm!
I have read that the breda coupled with another crest is due to double that split.
I tried it with chicken-like breda to double and triple crest actually works. |
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| 19/06/2012 23:45 |
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I can't confirm your statement but I read something is going on with that combination but is not proven yet.
Maybe you can prove it. Make close notes of your breeding you can need them afterwards ;-)
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| 21/06/2012 11:02 |
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A tought on multi-allelic traits ! Single Comb => p+p+ r+r+ d+d+ Bd+Bd+
In Silkies, we know the combs are formed by a combination of two genes Rose- and Pea, PPRR or PpRR or PpRr or PPRr producing similar but not exactly the same phenotype combs
Rose Comb => p+p+ RR d+d+ Bd+Bd+
Pea Comb => PP r+r+ d+d+ Bd+Bd+
Walnut (Pea & Rose combed) => PP RR d+d+ Bd+Bd+
In Breda males, two small papillae on each side of the median line back from the upper beak indicate the duplex condition, although the birds appear practically combless
Duplex- V Shaped => p+p+ r+r+ DvDv Bd+Bd+
Breda - combless => p+p+ r+r+ DvDv bdbd
Horned Caltanissetta => p+p+ r+r+ DvDv ?Bd+Bd+?
?? what causes the extreme horns ? Could have todo with an overmastering* effect of Livorno single combs ! So their could be a single combed underneath !!!
*(A kind as in the Exchequer which have an overmastering effect of the Dominant white gene of the Livorno without it is being present in combination with the absence of Melanotic !!)
Genotype Exchequer : E/E S/S*S/- mo/mo i+/i+ ml+/ml+
[Modificato da Danny_57 21/06/2012 11:12] |
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| 21/06/2012 12:59 |
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This is likely: Horned Caltanissetta => p + p + r + r + DvDv? Bd + Bd +?
I do not have to verify the breda.
The 'single mutation is known to Dv Dc is Dv Dc + d.
Quarda on this tab.
Poultry Mutations- Physical Genes Table (alphabetical order)
www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations3.html[Modificato da cirasa72 21/06/2012 13:00] |
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| 21/06/2012 13:47 |
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You intend this : Dv, Dc. d+
This means are 3 different possibilities on the D-locus :
- the original d+ => NO Duplex
and 2 mutations
- Dv => V-shaped
- Dc => Cup-shaped
The Duplex gene can take these forms :
- d+/d+ => single combed
- d+/Dv => V-shaped heterozygous
- d+/Dc => Cup-shaped heterozygous
- Dv/Dv => V-shaped homozygous
- Dc/Dc => Cup-shaped homozygous
- Dv/Dc => V-shaped heteozygous
Dv allele is dominant to the Dc allele.
Read also with attention the following from the same website :
"For example, d/d,r/r,p/p,bd/bd is genetically combless, suppressing single comb. A d/d,r/r,P/P,bd/bd bird is still combless, but suppressing pea comb, & so on.... That is, the Breda combless gene (bd), when homozygous, suppresses all other comb types, regardless of d, r & p loci. Similar to recessive white gene (c/c) suppressing all colour in plumage, regardless of all colour/pattern genes present".
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| 21/06/2012 13:56 |
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The Horned Caltanissetta is a phenomenon that is for sure.
There is a very convenient notion called 'modifying genes' for situations when not officially scientifically proven like this one.
Unofficially seems to be adopted Dv/d+ or Dv/Dc with a large (single) comb progeny as in leghorns underneath !
* Dv/Dc/d+ is genetically not possible (but you could interpretate it as the unofficially version ;-) [Modificato da Danny_57 21/06/2012 14:04] |
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| 21/06/2012 22:47 |
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This is my latest creation, Tuft triple black crest.
I used a chicken almost without crest, the crest to increase the mass-
I think that in these chickens is present Bd Bd
In other photos La-fleche The difference between horned and Caltanissetta.
Last pictures chick 15 days long horns,, |
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| 21/06/2012 23:06 |
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cirasa72, 21-6-2012 22:47:
This is my latest creation, Tuft triple black crest.
I used a chicken almost without crest, the crest to increase the mass-
I think that in these chickens is present Bd Bd
In other photos La-fleche The difference between horned and Caltanissetta.
Last pictures chick 15 days long horns,,
special indeed, keep up this patrimony.
just 1 little thing of the record, what do you intend when you write "Bd Bd" ? Breda comb or no Breda comb ?
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| 21/06/2012 23:22 |
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Not sure if Bd Bd is present, these chickens are local to breed no-crested
Males have small double crest similar to breda .
Perhaps the long horned was created out of these chickens.
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| 22/06/2012 07:48 |
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I intended with the way you write the abbreviations.
Because "Breda" comb is caused by a recessive mutation and is written with a lowercase as bd/bd or bdbd (need both alleles to can express).
When is intended NO "Breda" comb which is the original and that is written with a uppercase as Bd+/Bd+ or BdBd .
The "+" indicates also it's NO mutation but it's not necessary to write it but then when used the abbreviations must do attention to the uppercase & lowercase to not give confusion.
When males have the small double (horns) crest (similar to Breda) then the genotype should be Dv/Dv ,r+/r+ ,p+/p+ , bd/bd which is still combless, but suppressing V-shaped Duplex comb.
The long horned crest must contain for sure 1 allel of Dv the other allel is unsure d+ or Dc but most probably no Breda = Bd+/Bd+.
Their is a "modifying gene(s)" at work to extend, enlarge the hornes an that is supposed to be the "exceptional" single crest gene of the Livorno !
Nothing of this is scientifically proved yet but all is conceptual.
[Modificato da Danny_57 22/06/2012 07:54] |
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| 22/06/2012 21:20 |
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In a few months early genetic background and crossing them with other chickens.
Will verify the crest and the color. |
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