NEWS ABOUT BENEDICT

On Benedict XVI's 'look' and liturgy:
Interview with Mons. Guido Marini
Translated from

Dec. 28, 2008

The Pope on Christmas Day from the central loggia of St. Peter's was in choir dress, mozzetta and stole. Without the cope, miter and pastoral staff of previous years. Dressed for a solemn benediction [as at any Pope's first presentation to the world as Pope] that is not part of a liturgical rite.

Was this done out of moderation and stripping down to essentials? No, simply to impose a consistent order even in papal vestments, especially in the age of global mediatization.

[One assumes that wearing cope, miter and staff for the Urbi et Orbi blessings at Christmas, New Year and Easter during the first three years of Benedict's pontificate was a carry-over from the Wojtyla years - and we have to check back how it was with Paul VI and John XXIII. But the rationale for the less elaborate vestments seems obvious once it is pointed out.

The immediate post-'Habemus papam' appearance is the most obvious comparison, since like the Urbi et Orbi blessing, it takes place on the central loggia. But the Pope is also in choir dress, mozzetta and stole for other non-liturgical appearances, such as when he addresses a crowd at St. Peter's Basilica after a Mass celebrated by someone else, when he goes to Piazza Spagna for the homage to the Immaculate Conception, or in other churches when he leads the rosary (as he did in Pompeii and in Santa Maria Maggiore earlier this year.]

Benedict XVI obviously pays attention to details, and in the case of liturgies, he wishes to avoid confusion and above all, not to 'water down' the sense of mystery and celebration of the sacraments in a laissez-faire of images.

He has gradually introduced modifications in liturgical rubrics, for instance. At the Christmas midnight Mass - the traditional Kalenda chant at the end of the pre-Mass vigil rather than within the Mass; the now obligatory silences after the homily and after communion; kneeling down for Communion and receiving the host on the tongue, for those who present themselves to the Holy Father for communion; the children's floral homage to the Baby Jesus transferred to the end of the Mass [when the Pope brings the figurine to lay it at the manger of the Nativity scene inside the Basilica].

For 14 months now, Benedict XVI has had the 43-year-old Mons. Guido Marini as his master of liturgical ceremonies, who took over from Archbishop Piero Marini, John Paul II's liturgical MC for over 20 years.

The younger Mons Marini, 43, is a shy and timid Genoese ex-professor of canon law, who has clear ideas about the liturgy. He is pious, gentle and possessed of a disarming smile which immediately makes him likable. This is one of the rare interviews he has given [outside of L'Osservatore Romano].


Mons. Marini, who were your teachers?
When I entered the seminary, Cardinal Giuseppe Siri was archbishop of Genoa. I was ordained a priest by Cardinal Canestri, whom I served seven years as secretary. This was followed by another seven years as secretary to Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi [now Archbishop of Milan].

When Cardinal Bertone succeeded him as Archbishop of Genoa, he put me in charge of the educational office of the archdiocese and spiritual director at the seminary where I taught canon law, later, as chancellor of the archdiocesan Curia and prefect of the Cathedral of Genoa [which includes being master of liturgical ceremonies].

But I began my first steps as 'cerimoniere' with Cardinal Tettamanzi.


Benedict XVI has called liturgy "the peak of Church life, the time and place for a profound relationship with God". In your case, how did you develop your inclination to the liturgy?
From my youth, insofar as my vocation has its roots in liturgy - because love for the Lord also means love for liturgy as the occasion for encounter with the Lord. Besides, there has always been an important liturgical movement in Genoa. [For decades, this was promoted by Cardinal Siri himself, a tradition-honoring conservative.]


I would imagine it was Cardinal Bertone, having become Secretary of State to Benedict XVI, who proposed your name for your present position.
Yes, the offer came to me through Cardinal Bertone who said, "The Pope is considering you."


With Benedict XVI, are we witnessing a liturgical 're-styling' or something more profound?
It is more profound in the sense of underlining continuity with tradition, instead of rupture. In the sense of development within tradition.


Since you arrived, there have been changes and corrections - some imperceptible, some quite obvious.
The changes have been diversified. For instance, placing the Crucifix on the altar, at the center, to indicate that the celebrant and the faithful are looking not at each other, but both looking toward the Lord, who is the center of their common prayer.

Then there is giving Communion on the tongue with the communicant kneeling. This highlights the mystery of Jesus's real presence in the Holy Eucharist. Even posture is important in this way because it promotes the attitude of adoration and devotion.


Benedict XVI is the first Pope not to use the papal tiara on his coat of arms. He has also changed the form of the pallium from when he began his Pontificate, as well as the pastoral staff created by the sculptor Scorzelli and first donated by the people of Milan to Paul VI but also carried on in the same form by John Paul I and John Paul II. In its place, Pope Benedict has chosen a ferula, a simple Cross.
As you pointed out, the papal staff is now a ferula - the cross, not a crucifix, which makes it more usual and customary rather than extraordinary. Besides, there was a practical consideration: the Pope needed a lighter staff, and we found it in the sacristy museum [it was Pius IX's pastoral staff, which is a hollow gold-plated Cross].


We mentioned the introduction of the obligatory 'silences' during the Mass. In Rome, the center of Christianity, liturgies are seen in their splendid solemnity. And Latin is always used in some way within the Mass. Now, there is talk of transferring the Sign of Peace to an earlier part of the Mass, and new formulas for the concluding words of the Mass have been approved. The intention is to fully recover the non-arbitrary nature of liturgy, to discourage misplaced creativity and spontaneity, which are seen as threats.
I would not say it so drastically, and I also disagree with an expression I read elsewhere about 'liturgical restoration'. We are simply carrying on from what was done over so many years by my predecessor.

About transferring the Sign of Peace and any other changes in the liturgy itself are not within my competence. That belongs alone to the Congregation for Divine Worship which is now under a new Prefect, Cardinal Canizares.

My responsibility is to bring out the unity and catholicity in the papal celebrations of liturgy.


When will we see Pope Benedict celebrate the extraordinary form of the Mass? Personally, I thought the motu proprio was truly an act of liberalization and openness, certainly not of closed thinking.
I do not know. The Pope will decide what the right occasion will be. Meanwhile, many faithful around the world have availed of the new possibility.


In the post-synodal Apostolic Exhortation on the Eucharist, Papa Ratzinger dwelt on so many aspects of the liturgy. Among this is celebrating the mass ad Orientem, in the direction of Jerusalem. Last year, he celebrated Mass in the Sistine Chapel with his back turned to the assembly. Who proposed it?
I did. The Sistine Chapel is a treasure chest. It seemed to be a violation of its architectural beauty and harmony to have a temporary 'stage' set up within it.

And even in the ordinary rite, what you call celebrating 'with the priest's back turned to the assembly' is an allowed modality [as it has been done in churches that do not have a Novus Ordo altar, for instance, in the side chapels of St. Peter's Basilica and many other churches with side chapels where Mass is celebrated].

But I must emphasize that is is not about the priest turning his back to the assembly - it is about the celebrant and the faithful both turned towards the only point that counts - the Crucified Lord.


L'Osservatore Romano once headlined an article 'The Pope wears Christ not Prada'. Benedict XVI's 'look' is striking and intriguing. His vestments, his pectoral crosses, the chairs he uses at liturgies, his mozzettas and stoles - he comes across as an elegant Pope. Is that a journalistic concept?
The very use of the word 'elegant' in the language of today would seem to tag him as a Pope who likes exterior, worldly aspects. But the more attentive observers would see that it is his way of trying to wed tradition and modernity.

This is far from an improbable return to the past but rather a re-equilibration of past and present. One might say, the search for a harmony and beauty that reveal the mystery of God.


What will we see in Cameroon and Angola? African liturgies are picturesque with their populist elements, a totality that is expressed also through dances and drums. It will be quite a test for you...
[He laughs]. We are now preparing for the trip. We will certainly try to put together something from local traditions that is also valid for everyone.

With his very presence, the Pope represents the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. so we will find a unifying synthesis between the Roman rite and typical aspects according to local cultural sensibilities. Inculturation of faith and liturgy is a universal dimension of the Church.


Liturgy is a residual millennial patrimony of the Church. The missal is woven from citations from the Bible and the Fathers of the Church, both Oriental and occidental, along with psalms, prayers and collects, and the sacramental rite that is the central part of the Mass. In a way, it is meant to be an 'untouchable' patrimony - something that must be respected. But every time there is a celebration, do you have to consult the Pope? If so, how do you do this?
Very simply. The Pope is consulted on everything that is relevant, and before any celebration, he gets all the proposed texts. Usually, we send it to him with some notes, and he always answers back, with notations written in his own hand.


This has to be an extraordinary experience for you. Which episodes have moved you?
Ys, it certainly has been quite an experience. What has struck me most so far was the Holy Father's visit to the United States. Since it was my first international trip with him, it was a novelty. But it was also very emotional, for the affection and warmth with which he was welcomed, and for the spiritual climate.

I was also struck by the imposition of the pallium last June on the new metropolitan bishops. Especially when one of them, while kneeling in front of the Pope said, "Holy Father, I come from a diocese where my predecessor suffered a martyrdom of faith. Please pray for me that I too can be a martyr for the faith". That impressed me even more with what it means to be in the Church.


Is there a great 'feeling' of sympathy between you and the Pope?
On my part - absolutely!


How would you describe Benedict XVI - you who have the good fortune to be quite close to him?
That he unites exceptional intellectual elevation with great simplicity and gentleness, which is characteristic of his human and spiritual personality, and a reality that I can verify and touch first hand.

The very fact of being near a Pope, this Pope, is a tremendous grace for my own priesthood.